February 2009: Mount Vernon Love Story by Mary Higgins Clark

Homecomings

They seemed very happy to be going home to Mount Vernon. What is the most wonderful thing about coming home after a long journey?

Slavery

What do you think about the fact that George and Patsy owned slaves? Do you think Clark romanticized the relationship between the Washingtons and their slaves?

George and Patsy

What do you think about the relationship between George and Patsy? Is it what you expected? If not, how is it different?

Children

Why do you think George and Patsy never had children of their own?

Love

Do you think George loved Sally more than Patsy? Why or why not? If given the chance do you think he would have left her for Sally?

Relationships

Compare the relationship that George had with his mother to the relationship he had with his stepchildren.

Romance

How does this book rate as a romance novel?

Fact or fiction?

How much of this novel do you think is based on fact?

Similarities

What are some similarities between this book and her mystery novels?

Comparisons

Compare this book with Mary Higgins Clark's more recent popular mysteries. How does this measure up?

January 2009: Mansfield Park by Jane Austen

Primogeniture

The social system was based on the concept of primogeniture (yes I looked that up), the right of the first born son to inherit the entire estate. How does Austen treat this class system in Mansfield Park?

Just wanted to let you know I am going to start reading this book tonight! Then I can answer the questions
-Bookworm

I know. I need to get on here and answer all of them too.
-Annegirl

The Crawfords esteem

The Crawfords seem to among the tiny handful of people who see the value of Fanny Price. Are they ever unkind to her? Why is Fanny so little moved by their interest and esteem? In your opinion, is any of this esteem genuine?

Exactly!

I think this is a really good point. Mary Crawford seems to recognize Fanny as a threat right from the start, so she keeps her enemies close, so to speak. She knew she'd have to be kind to Fanny in order to keep the wool pulled over Edmund's eyes. I think she was unkind to Fanny by acting like a friend in order to further her own purposes with Edmund, and her brother's plans with Fanny. I think she would've willingly kept Fanny in the dark about Henry's behavior if it wouldn't have come out. I think she does have some admiration for her moral character though.

It seems that Henry genuinely admired Fanny. I almost think that he mistook genuine admiration for love because he'd never had true regard for any of the women he got involved with before Fanny. He would flirt with women to expose their moral weakness, really. But he couldn't do it with Fanny and it stunned him into awed admiration ;) He was definitely unkind in the way he set out to "undo" her. But then once he felt like he was in love with her, I think in a way it was still unkind to seek her hand when she was so clearly superior in moral character. He must've known he couldn't deserve her without a "true conversion" to goodness. Obviously he didn't make it there :(

That's why Fanny is a great h e r o i n e (Can I just say that I h a t e the name Fanny? I hope that's no one's middle name!). With all the attention from the Crawfords that anybody else would be thrilled to have, she didn't bank on it. She was always kind to them, but never counted on their kindness to her in the way that most people would. She didn't let it go to her head. We all are eager to be loved, but Fanny was very careful about who influenced her. And this concludes my book report on "Mansfield Park". Thank you. ;)

-Sanya the Duck

I agree on all your points. I never really thought Mary did much that wouldn't suit her in the end. I also agree with what you said about Henry. He wasn't used to having someone not fall for him and I think that did make him sit up to notice what she was really about. If she had married him I'm sure that he would have immediately slipped back into his ways and not admired her as much anymore.
I am not a fan of the name fanny either.
Love your last sentence by the way... funny!
-Annegirl

Waiting

Fanny Price spends a great deal of the book sitting and waiting. We see this in particular in the chapter where they visit Mr. Rushworth's Sotherton estate. Discuss the significance of Fanny's waiting in this chapter and her waiting throughout the novel as a whole.

She waited the whole book. She waited for Edmund to notice her, for letters from her brother, for visits from her brother, for her horse, etc... I think she was so used to waiting that she wouldn't know what to do with herself if she got something first.

-Annegirl

I think all the waiting was necessary to let Austen shine in her ultra talent - which is observing human nature. We really get to know the characters through Fanny's watchful eyes. I'll reword it: Fanny waits and watches so Austen can show off her knowledge of human nature. And from what we hear about Austen's life, it sounds like she probably spent her whole life waiting as well!
-Sanya the Duck

Good observation!
-Annegirl

Mrs. Norris

Find something good to say about Mrs. Norris.

umm... that she gets what she deserves in the end?! ha ha! I think Mrs. Norris has good intentions. She was the one who came up with the idea of taking Fanny in at the beginning of the story. Even though she wasn't willing to actually help with it, her plan got Fanny to Mansfield Park. She also seems to love her nieces' and have their best interests at heart, although she doesn't seem to have very good judgement there either. And what a meanie she is to Fanny!
-Sanya the Duck

I am impressed! I was wondering if anyone could come up with something and now that I've read your post I realize that maybe I was too hard on her. I guess she may have had good intentions. She just drove me nuts. That's why I wasn't born into a 'class' society I guess - even though sometimes I really think I should have been born in an old fashioned time. I would have been the one that stood up and dumped the drinks over poor old Mrs. Norris' head.
-Annegirl

Nope, I h a t e d her too. But you said to come up with SOMETHING and that was what I found. What a horrible creature she was!
-Sanya the Duck

Favorite Characters

Who are your favorite and least favorite characters?

Fanny and Mr. C.

Of course Fanny was a favorite. I wish she wasn't so timid, but I love her for her outstanding moral character.

Henry Crawford was another favorite, but for completely different reasons! Obviously he isn't the of moral fortitude. But his character brought an excitement to the book. I loved that despite the fact that he was always a total player, he did come to a point of recognizing Fanny's worth and goodness, and it seemed to make a change in him. Unfortunately, he just admired Fanny's goodness and didn't share it!

I liked Edmund for his kindness to Fanny. He is a very human character - basically a good guy, but susceptible to Mary Crawford's charms and influence.

-Sanya the Duck

I agree with your favorites. I felt bad that Fanny didn't stand up for herself and was so timid (she reminded me of Molly from Wives and Daughters in this way) but she was still such a good person.
I found that most of the exciting and most interesting parts of the book were a result of Henry being around.
I like Edmund because he is so kind and so worried about Fanny throughout the book , even before he loved her. He also had high moral character although he did go against his own feelings occasionally. That did make him seem more like a real guy.
I did not like his sister and I think that is partly because she seemed amused by her brother playing with emotions, partly because she seemed to love Edmund but would not have been with him if he followed his chosen profession, and partly because I wasn't certain that her kindness to Fanny wasn't fake.
And my least favorite was of course Mrs. Norris the old babble ax ... (is that how you spell that?)
-Annegirl

Fanny Price

Jane Austen seems to have considered Mansfield Park her best work, but many readers don't take kindly to Fanny Price as the heroine. Why might that be so? Do you feel that way about her, or do you find her an attractive and sympathetic character? Explain.

Difference

How is Mansfield Park different from other Austen novels like Sense and Sensibility and Pride and Prejudice? How is it similar?

Sisters

At the heart of its plot, Mansfield Park has three sisters. What kind of family life do you imagine would account for Mrs. Bertram, Mrs. Norris, and Mrs. Price?

A Long Wait

Mansfield Park was written after a silence of more than a decade. During this period, Austen moved several times, saw the deaths of her father and potential suitor, and became the dependent old maid we find so often among her characters. The Napoleonic Wars continued; England embarked on imperialistic adventures. Austen followed both with interest. Do you see evidence of these things in the novel?

Lovers Vows

The production of Lovers' Vows occurs despite the fact that the whole cast knows that Sir Thomas would disaprove. Discuss why he might feel this way , and the consequence of his absence on his family.

Brothers

The Bertram brothers are very different. What makes them so?

Improvements

The word "improvements" is used throughout Mansfield Park. Discuss the social significance of improvements.

Antiuga Plantation

Although the Antigua plantation doesn't at first seem important, it plays a vital role in the novel. Discuss how Sir Thomas's Caribbean estate functions in the novel as a whole.

December 2008: A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens

Bah humbug

Is there anything about the holidays that gives you the "Bah Humbugs"?

No! I love the holidays! I just have to work harder at not getting as stressed.
-Bookworm

Not really. Sometimes people's attitudes can make me feel that way but more often than not I feel blessed that I don't.
I had to go into Walmart the weekend before Christmas to pick up Abi's new bed that we had used the Ship to Store thing for. It's kind of a ghetto walmart so I knew going in that I am more likely to see someone being held down waiting for the police to come than to see a bunch of happy people enthralled with the Christmas spirit... but still I was surprised when I did not see one person smile the entire time I was in there. It made me feel sad for them. Everyone looked and acted so miserable that it made me wonder why they didn't have anything to be happy about so close to Christmas.
I had been cranky before I went in and that changed by the time I came out when I realized how lucky I was to be able to go home to a good husband, a beautiful daughter, a warm home, food, clothes, and presents under the tree not to mention the faith and knowledge we have in our faith as the true meaning of Christmas was no where to be found.
I also find myself feeling grateful as I hear people I know and respect talking about how they hate Christmas and Santa and all of that. I am so grateful to be able to feel the magic and wonder that is a part of it all. I think I am the anti-scrooge and I think that has everything to do with Bookworm and my dad because the holidays were so much fun at our home on the years we had a lot and on the years when we did not. It was always the same no matter what. Also, I see people around me doing so much for others and I think that should outweigh all the commercialism.
-Annegirl

Thank you for what you said...and I am so glad that our Christmas memories past and present as a family have meant so much to you!
-Bookworm

Man's children

What does it mean to say the boy and the girl (Ignorance and Want) are " Man's children"?

Because man is the one that creates Ignorance and Want by ignoring the needs and wants of those around them...and by keeping man in ignorance want is produced.
-Bookworm

Because God does not create ignorance and want. That is created by man by the decisions and environment.
Every baby born has the potential of education. It is up to the people that are in charge to make sure that child gets it whether that is the ability to go to school or just to read free books from the library or sit and talk to them for free.
Want is a difficult one as people can't always be in charge of this but as we all know want increases as our attitudes change- meaning you can look at two families that have the same amount of worldly things and one can seem in want and one can seem satisfied. Want and ignorance, also, are not exclusive to the poor. There are plenty of wealthy people that are extremely ignorant and want more because they are not grateful for what they have.
-Annegirl

Wow, that was very profound! I really liked what you had to say...particularly in the last paragraph!
-Bookworm

Message

Dickens lived in the 19th century. Do you think the message of this play still applies today? What is the relationship between wealth and happiness?

The message does still apply today! All of us have choices in what we will do with our lives and whether we will do good to the best of our ability or do wrong. With wealth one can become stingy and selfish and prideful or it can be a source of doing good for others.
-Bookworm

It definitely applies today. I am sure that this message is one that has applied since the dawn of man and will apply forever.
The relationship between wealth and happiness is an interesting one. They are not exclusively related - as we have all heard the adage Money can't buy happiness. We all know and see every day people that are among the world's wealthiest that aren't happy and none of us would ever want to trade places with and we see people that seem to have nothing and are happy.
Would I be happy if we were really poor? I hope so but I think it would be hard. Would I be happy if we were really wealthy? I hope so. It would be easier. See.
I think that I would probably have the chance to be happier if we were wealthy because it would take away the stresses in life... we wouldn't worry about bills, I wouldn't teach preschool, I'd probably hire someone to clean the bathrooms, someone to cook healthy food for us, and have a personal masseuse.... but I believe that if Doug and I lived in a small apartment and had less bills because of that it would also make it less worrisome and therefore would also take away some stress.
I think we all just have to learn to be happy no matter what. I struggle with this. I'm sure most people do if not every body. I do believe though that we have to learn to be grateful for what we do have (and don't have) before we can learn to be happier with more.
-Annegirl

Ghost of the past

Why is the Ghost of Christmas Past young, small, cloaked in white and shining bright? What does he mean when he says that Scrooge made his cap and has forced him to wear it?

Maybe because in Christmas Past Scrooge was young and still innocent and had happy possibilities ahead of him...and then started changing and would have to wear the "cap" of what he had become and the choices he had made.
-Bookworm

I have no idea. I was hoping to get some insight from you all.
-Annegirl

Visitors

Scrooge and Bob Cratchit are interrupted three times on Christmas Eve; carolers, businessmen asking for donations, and Scrooge's nephew. Do you think it is connected in any way to a visit of three spirits?

I think that those interruptions showed the reader how "down" Scrooge was by having no joy in carols and happy things, being selfish and uncaring in helping others, and trying to turn away love when it wanted to be a part of his life.
-Bookworm

I'm sure that it was intended. usually those kinds of things are. He was visited by 3 people that he turned away from and then was in turn visited by three people that showed him the consequences of those kinds of actions.
-Annegirl

Spirit

Which spirit had the greatest effect on Scrooge? Why?

I think all three had great effect on Scrooge but Christmas future really scared him when he saw the bad effects of not changing and the possibility of death without a chance to change.
-Bookworm

I felt like the future did. It all led up to it though. The past reminded him of the good times and good people that had loved him. The present showed him what the people he didn't care too much about were really dealing with. If he hadn't seen Tiny Tim and learned to care for him in the present he may not have been as affected by the fact that he would die in the future.
-Annegirl

Marley was dead to begin with...

Why does the narrator make such a point of Marley's being dead?

Because the story all hinges on ghosts...Marley and the three ghosts that come to visit. If one didn't believe in any of them there would have not been a story or a change in Scrooge's life.
-Bookworm

I think it is to make it more spectacular when he comes to Scrooge.
-Annegirl

Christmas Spirit

How do you keep the Christmas spirit and the holidays in your heart?

By having fun in all that I do from decorating to baking and wrapping and giving and all! And by trying to keep the Babe in mind as the reason for the season.
-Bookworm

Easy. TRADITIONS!! We make sure the house is decked out. We do activities that have to do with Santa and Jesus to make sure we have the best of both worlds- the spirit of the true meaning of Christmas and gratitude for our Saviour and the fun of Santa and gifts and surprises.
-Annegirl

His sister

Do you think his life would have been different if his sister had lived and they had maintained a close relationship over he years?

Very possibly that could have been a great influence on him because he did love her so.
-Bookworm

Again, I'm not sure. It would have been good for him to have someone around that loved him so much unconditionally but it doesn't mean he would not have turned into the same guy. There are a lot of selfish and cruel people in the world that are surrounded by people that love them.
-Annegirl

Fatherly relations

How did Scrooge's childhood relationship with his own father shape him as an adult?

I think it made him selfish and ignorant of the needs of others...and because he had been treated so badly that is how he treated others.
-Bookworm

I think it made him selfish. He had to think of himself since his father wouldn't. He probably assumed that most people in life would treat him that way and built up a wall from letting people in.
-Annegirl

Regrets

What do you think Scrooge regrets the most about his past?

I would think it would be how he treated others and how he treated his nephew, losing the girl he loved, and how he was treated by his father.
-Bookworm

I would assume that his biggest regret would have been that great love lost.
-Annegirl

fatherhood

How would his life have been different had he been a father? Do you think he would have been as cold and heartless to the Cratchetts? Why or why not?

If his marriage and fatherhood had helped him to be a kind and good man then he would have treated others the same kind way.
-Bookworm

I agree with Bookworm...again. If the marriage had helped him be a better person than he probably would have been a good father and it would have spilt over to the other parts of his life. But, he may have turned out to be the same kind of father that his was to him had he not changed but still had kids.
-Annegirl

What could have been?

How would Scrooge's life have been different if he had married? Do you think he would have evolved into such a miserly man? Why or why not?

Yes. I feel that if he had married the girl he loved and that loved him he would have had that good influence around him...and a family at his side to help him overcome the pain he had suffered as a child without love.
-Bookworm

I would imagine that if he had someone around that loved him that may have softened him and changed his attitude but I'm not 100% sure that it would have.
Maybe he just would have made her life miserable and then he would have been surrounded by even more misery which would have made him even scroogier.
-Annegirl

the business

How do you think Scrooge's business changed after his experience?

He became an honest and fair man and was kind in his dealings with his fellowman. It was probably a place of happiness instead of drudgery.
-Bookworm

I am sure it became a more charitable business and maybe not as profitable although he may have been blessed with more business after that (if it had been true that is)
-Annegirl

The Cratchitts

How do you think life changed for the Cratchett family after that Christmas?

They were given a decent wage to support their family and a friend who became dear to all of them. They did not have to want after that. And Tiny Tim's health improved because of the needed care he now received.
-Bookworm

In obvious ways their son didn't die. That's about the best thing that could ever happen to a family. I am sure that their life was made a lot easier and less stressful as Scrooge became more generous and less demanding.
-Annegirl

Favorites

Who was your favorite character in the story? Your least favorite character?

Bob Cratchitt and Tiny Tim were my favorites and Scrooge as a young boy. Oh, and of course, Mr. Fitziwigg (spelling...sorry). My least favorite was Scrooge's father and his older self before his changes.
-Bookworm

My favorite character is Tiny Tim. He's just so positive in spite of what he has to deal with and seems to be such a good and sweet little boy.
My least favorite would probably be the people that stole from Scrooge after he was dead (if he hadn't changed) 'cause that's just yucky.
-Annegirl

Your Scrooge

Who, in your contemporary world, needs a visit from ghosts of his or her past, present, and future? (this could be someone you know or someone you don't know- but don't be too mean)

Most of our elected officials, retired and active, and people like Brittany Spears who really need some changes in life's directions
-Bookworm

I agree with Bookworm. I think we probably all need the little reminders occasionally but there are definitely celebrities (and sometimes even family and friends) that you look at and wish they could see the bigger picture so they could be happier. I know people have thought this of me before.
-Annegirl

Why?

Why do you think Charles Dickens wrote this book?

As a creative thinker and writer he probably saw life around him and in others and decided the way he could best make changes for himself and others would be to write it.
-Bookworm

I'm sure the idea just popped into his head. As an aspiring writer that is how I get my ideas. Maybe somebody said or did something that made him want to put this particular message out there.
-Annegirl

Your past, present, and future

If you were to look objectively at your past, present, and future which do you think would alter your attitudes and behaviors the most? Would it be a mistake in your past, a poor judgement you made recently, or events that you think are yet to come? What events, unless to personal, made you choose the way you did?

Probably the first two. Mistakes in the past (hindsight is 20-20 vision) give one experience in knowing what they don't want to do again...and present poor judgements and actions can pose remorse or embarrassment for one and cause one to want to do things differently.
-Bookworm

Future. I agree. I have made many mistakes in the past that I've had to learn from - although if I could go back to those times and know the future that would have affected my decisions more.. soooo I think I would be most influenced by knowing what my decisions would mean for me down the road.
-Annegirl

Scaring the dickens out of someone

Is it possible to scare someone into being a nicer/better person? Why or why not? If so, is the transformation permanent?

Yes! It happened with Scrooge...but how many of us have gone through a scary experience and decided changes needed to be made? Or we had a close call or knew of someone who went through something and decided we definitely did not want to follow that same course?
-Bookworm

Yep. Hey, I've been through it. Some on here know the story, some don't. As a junior high kid I was pretty rebellious and my friends and I were all skater punks. One of my friends got hit by a car on his skateboard and killed. His best friend (another friend) then couldn't deal with the grief and about a week later hung himself.
We were suddenly dealing with the death of two friends and my best friend had just moved away and I was trying to figure out what to do. I had a dream that I died and I was sitting on a really cold and hard floor and I had a chain around my ankle. There wasn't anyone there with me, there wasn't any explanation of the situation. All I knew was I was dead and I was terrified. When I woke up I was altered.
That was when I decided to go to the high school where I didn't know anyone so I could start over. Then I became better friends with two of the kids in my ward that went to that school, then they invited me to early morning seminary with them where I met the coolest Mormon woman ever (to me at that time in my life) that had climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro and liked my kind of music, etc. The first day I was there she had me come up to read a scripture. I was hesitant but did it anyway and I'm standing there, she tells me what verse, I read it and it was from the sermon on the mount - they that mourn shall be comforted.
So, really a scary dream changed my life.
-Annegirl

I don't remember you ever telling me that story before. I am sure I would have remembered if you had as that is so profound. Thank you for sharing that. That was your own personal "Christmas Carol"
-Bookworm

Really? Wow. I thought that was common knowledge in the family... but I guess since I didn't exactly tell you everything back then that I dealt with it quietly. Weird. So, what did you think made me decide to go to Alta and change things?
-Annegirl

Movies

Many movie versions have been made of this book. Which is your favorite? Why?

I know of three: and Alastair Simms one, the George C. Scott one, and the Muppetts Christmas Carol. My favorite is the Scott one as it is so close to the book and Mr. Scott is such a fantastic actor...and I love the Muppetts one!!
-Bookworm

I like the Muppets Christmas Carol the best. I think it is so much fun. I have only seen two other ones (I think) although there are a lot of movies that use the general idea of it. The only ones I've seen with the three visitor things is the George C Scott one mom mentioned and the new Barbie one.
The Barbie one is cute (although the ghost of Christmas past is a tad annoying) and makes the story accessible to Abi. The George C. Scott one is good and as mom said, close to the book, but I can never enjoy it because it scared me so bad when I was little - when he showed Ignorance and Want. Creepy.
-Annegirl

Love the George C. Scott version! Although, it really creeps my kids out, too, when they show Ignorance and Want. Rachel liked the Barbie version. I have seen other versions, but I have to say Scott version is my favorite.
Also, sorry, I haven't read the book yet - but I will. I am a little behind with my reading but I will eventually get caught up. It got crazy in November and December with everything. But I will forge forward and get reading!!!
-Deenie Bug

I think its that way with everyone! Bookworm and I were just talking about it yesterday. It seems like the holiday season went by so fast this year and it seems like it has been really busy for everyone. So, remember the entire purpose for this book club and web site is to have FUN not to add another stress to life. So, don't worry. Read the books as you can, answer questions as you can- that's why they stay active forever.
-Annegirl

It is good to know that this is a fun bookclub (which it is!!!) and not an added stressor! I have been able to keep up with all the books so far (thank goodness "Christmas Carol" was pretty short and Jim and I read it as an Advent story several nights until it was finished!) except for "Wives and Daughters"! I am still reading it...am just a little over half through it. I love the book but it is a big book and I wasn't able to read as much as I wanted through November and December.
-Bookworm

Surprised?

Had you read A Christmas Carol before? Did anything surprise you in the book?

It was the first time I read it but I watch the movie every Christmas so I don't really remember anything surprising me.
-Bookworm

It talked about some of the rooms in his house being let out for businesses. I didn't know that. It was my first time reading it. I was also surprised at how short it was.
-Annegirl

Part

Did you have a favorite part? What image, line, or scene sticks with you the most, if one does?

I love how joyful he becomes when he makes the change. He is jumping on his bed and running around almost delirious with excitement and so grateful for another chance to make his life and others better!
-Bookworm

The line about his house playing a game of hide and seek and never being found.
-Annegirl

Novembers Books: Wives and Daughters by Elizabeth Gaskell

Themes

Andrew Davies believes that Wives and Daughters will appeal to today's audiences because it is a story of second families- common in the 19th century because of high death rates, common today because of divorce and remarriage. Do you agree? What other themes, conflicts, ideas in this 1866 novel have relevance for modern readers?

I think he is right. So many people have to deal with step- relations. I think it is important for people to take away from this how important it is to consider your children when re marrying because it can be a good thing or bad thing for them. I believe Molly's father really thought he was doing the right thing but he should have been more receptive and considerate of Molly's feelings. Children should always come first in these situations (in my opinion)
-Annegirl

Oops!

I'm trying to not see anything I shouldn't in your posts because I haven't read "Wives and Daughters" yet. How did everyone like it?

Let me know when the forum for Mansfield Park is up. I finished it recently (my first time!) and loved it! I've got to get to the library for the next book, it sounds like a good one!

-Sanya the Duck

Read the book sanya...it was good! It is a big book and takes awhile but is worth it! Even though times in each generation are different there are many things that are the same. Being kind, truthful, not being a gossip, the dynamics of the merging of two families, maintaining confidences, friendships and loyalty...these were important then and are important now. And I agree with annegirl that when there is death or divorce (that didn't happen so much back then) the children should always come first!

-Bookworm

Ok, I'll do it! I just finished Mount Vernon and so I have a bit of time before those questions post. Thanks for the recommendation!
-Sanya the Duck

Classes

Elizabeth Gaskell lived during a period when the traditional social and political structure of English society was changing. Does Wives and Daughters challenge traditional ideas of social class? What do you think Gaskell believed about how society should be ordered?

I just want everyone to know that I am still reading the book. It has been so busy and I had such little sleep that I couldn't even read when I went to bed! So when I am finished I will post on this book! See you!
-Bookworm

That's cool. Take your time. That is the reason the forums stay up forever. This book club is supposed to be easy and fun- not one more stress to try to get a book done on time!
-Annegirl

That is a bit hard to answer. People in Hollingford were still, for the most part, very traditional in their ways, beliefs of how a girl should act, and taboos. Girls shouldn't meet a man in the woods or pass notes, etc. without a chaperone. Mrs. Gibson was really a traditionalist in what a girl could and couldn't do by what she thought the Cumnors would think. Squire Hamley thought his boys should marry in name and money...but later drastically changed his thinking when he found out how good Aimee' was and later when he found that Roger could not marry a better girl than Molly. Cynthia really didn't care about what was expected of her...she fell in love on a whim and attention and caring from any man because she was pretty and probably because of the neglect of love from her mother when she was growing up. Molly was very traditional but honorable and sweet ...and probably escaped the norms of those days by studying and wanting to learn which really wasn't thought as a smart thing for a girl to do.
-Bookworm

I kind of felt while reading it that Gaskell must have been very proper if that makes sense because of how good Molly is. I don't know if this is exactly true but my main characters have always been a reflection of things I like about myself or those around me and so I imagine that those were the kind of traits she admired and deemed proper.
-Annegirl

I think so, too. Now that you bring that up I think Gaskell saw traits around her that she used in her characters like Mrs. Gibson...traits that she didn't like...but in her favorite characters she put in the traits she admired and that she felt were a part of her life and beliefs.
-Bookworm

Heroism

Anthony Howell, who plays Roger in the film, describes his character as "an unheroic hero". How does Roger differ from a typical hero? From the other men in the novel? From his brother Osborne? Why is it significant that Roger is a scientist and an explorer? What does this rising star at Cambridge need to learn from Molly?

I loved Roger. He is exactly the kind of hero I would fall in love with if I was a character in that book. He isn't out being dashing and romantic. He quietly stays in the background and lets his parents think that Osborne is the star. He is intelligent. He wants to learn and discover more than go to dances and have tea.
From Molly he needs to learn the true nature of love.
-Annegirl

Exactly! He was a behind-the-scenes kind of guy. Just do those things he loves. Because of the attention and adoration Osborne got from his parents Roger could have been very jealous but he was a good man and tried to be a good friend to Osborne and Molly and a good son to his father. He learned wisdom and love from Molly.
-Bookworm

Exactly!
-Annegirl

Parental relation

The parent/child relationships in the Gibson household and at Hamley Hall are at the emotional center of the novel. What universal stories does the novel tell about parents and their children? Which relationships did you find the most compelling or believable? What are the barriers that keep parents and children from understanding each other more completely? Do similar barriers still arise today within families?

I felt really sad that Molly and her father didn't get to hang out alone together much once he was married.
I also think it was heart wrenching to read about the relationship between Osborne and his father. I just kept wanting to yell at him to just tell his dad the truth! It makes me very aware though of how as parents we should try to make sure that although our children know our opinions of things they also know they can come to us about everything. Truth always makes things better
-Annegirl

Yes, I think barriers still exist in families depending on the dynamics of a family. Even as much as we try to be good parents there may sometimes be challenges to share ideas and feelings. In Molly's case she so loved her father but when he remarried without even talking with her about it...just telling her and getting angry at her because she was upset ...I think that really hurt her. That didn't stop her from apologizing the next day which is something her father never did to her...which I felt he should have done. And with Osborne...because his father was so open about his hate of French people and Catholics and servants he made it impossible for Osborne to share what was happening in his life. What a sorrow that put on Osbornes shoulders. He wanted to tell but felt he couldn't. Because of that he couldn't even explain his debt so his father thought he was just a good-for-nothing who was using up the family money for foolish living and who also failed at Cambridge. It took a little grandson to soften the Squires heart and feelings.
-Bookworm

Characters

Wives and Daughters has been praised for the three dimensional quality of its characters, even those who are less appealing, such as Mrs. Kirkpatrick. How does Gaskell help us understand and sympathize with the novel's less likable characters? How does she reveal the flaws of the more sympathetic characters, like Molly? Is there a character that is too good to be true or too bad to be believable?

I'm not sure. I felt like all the characters were real. I've known despicable people and I've known amazingly good people so I very rarely read someone and think they are too good or too bad to be true.
I think the fact that there are so many characters in this book that are part of each is what makes them so interesting. Like Mrs. Kirkpatrick for example. She isn't necessarily outright evil. She thinks she is being a good step mom. She didn't lock Molly up in the tower and make her do all the chores- but she just doesn't love anyone as much as she loves herself.
-Annegirl

Good comments annegirl! As I read I felt like the characters were so real...and like us all Mrs. Gaskell brought out the personalities of each so well as to see the good traits and not so good traits. Like Mr. Preston...everyone talked about him as not a very nice person but I didn't see anything that made him so bad. He did everything Cynthia asked of him and had a hard time letting go when she decided to break her promise to him. He did give the letters back and if he had been so bad he wouldn't have cared who got hurt by them. Dr. Gibson was such a good man and doctor but sometimes he just wouldn't listen to what Molly had to say...just kind of brush it off. I felt bad for Molly when he was so upset with her and the gossip situation and almost violent with her and even when he found her sincerity to be believable he would not hug her and give her support. These are just examples of dimensions of two characters that I saw.
-Bookworm

Friendship

Friendship is a prominent theme in the novel. Select some sets of friends. What does each show about the nature of friendship? Which friendships are unexpected or surprising? Which are strongest? Why?

I was surprised by how much Molly loved Cynthia because I think I would have had the opposite reaction to her.
-Annegirl

I was surprised, too, by how much Molly loved Cynthia even when she was sorely used by Cynthia in the situation with Mr. Preston. But I think she could understand Cynthia and Molly probably was the first person Cynthia had really loved since her father died. I think she was deep-down a good person and Molly could feel that. The feeling they had of friendship and sisterhood was genuine. I also think that Roger and Osborne were friends. They loved each other and were willing to share secrets to protect Osborne and his wife and Roger loved his brother enough to help him in any way he could. The friendship between Molly and her father was so strong and that is why it was so hard for her when he married. Also, Mrs. Hamley and Molly were so close...I think it was like a mother/daughter relationship.
-Bookworm

Fairy tales

Wives and Daughters begins like many fairy tales: a single father with a daughter remarries, bringing a a stepmother with children of her own into the household. How is Gaskell's story similar to and different from stepmother fairy tales you recall? Why do you think so many writers and storytellers have used the stepmother plot?

I'm not sure why so many fairy tales use the stepmother angle but as far as what is different about this one- in most of the fairy tale stepmother/stepdaughter stories it seems that the stepmother is looking out for her kid(s) wanting them to have more than the main girl and making sure her child comes first.
In this story the mother isn't really like that. She wants things for her daughter but is pretty concerned about Molly having things too. Mostly, though, she is just mostly concerned about herself. I mean, she is so jealous of her own daughter's beauty that she doesn't want her at the wedding. She's more like the Snow White queen in that way I guess. In some ways I almost find someone like her scarier than someone that is outright evil because at least with the evil characters you know where they stand all the time but with her she thinks she is good but does really mean things and is so conniving... in my opinion.
-Annegirl

Dr. Gibson is worried with Molly catching the eyes and fancies of boys now and is gone so much so after so many years of it being just him and Molly he decides to marry and there is Claire waiting like a Cheshire cat to be picked up by a good and successful man who will take care of her and admire her. She is not an EVIL woman but is a very selfish woman and cruel in her own "sweet" ways. She thinks she is wonderful and when it suits her she treats people nice. Once she becomes "momma" things really change in the Gibson household...to the dismay of Molly right away and to the doctor not long after!
-Bookworm

The Ending

Gaskell died before she finished Wives and Daughters. The manuscript ends after Roger leaves again for Africa without telling Molly how he feels. Gaskell's notes indicate that she intended to write a love scene and a happy ending for Molly and Roger upon Roger's return. Were you able to imagine the ending the way you wanted or were you disappointed with it.
If you have seen the film adaptation what did you think of the ending? Do you think she would have approved?

I think she would have approved of the ending. However, they should have had Molly and Roger kiss! But I really like the proposal scene in the rain - romantic. It was so sad that Elizabeth Gaskill died before she could actually finish it herself, though.
-Deenie Bug

I agree. I was shocked when I read the book. This was the first book that I have read by this author and so I knew nothing about her. I don't usually read introductions to books until I am done with them in case they contain spoilers so when I got to the end and it just ended and then had the follow up chapter stating what they knew about how she would have ended it you could have heard my gasp and "What?"
I loved the book though. I am planning on reading more of her books now.
-Annegirl

Here it is January 30th...last night I finished the book and tonight I read the additional info after the ending. It took so long to read it because I had to sandwich it in with a lot of other things and usually I'd get to bed to read after a busy day and then couldn't keep my eyes open for very long...but I finally did it!! It is so sad to write such a remarkable book and then die before writing the last chapter! I would have loved to have read her words at the close. I think of the ending as the one depicted in the movie...at least Molly and Roger acknowledged their love for each other openly in a rainstorm...they got married and she went with him to Africa!
-Bookworm

October 2008: The Goose Girl by Shannon Hale

Characters

Who are your favorite secondary characters?

Finn, Talone, Gilsa, and Enna.
-Bookworm

Enna, Finn, Gilsa, Talone, Geric, and poor Falada
-Annegirl

Gilsa, Finn, Talone, Enna. I liked her aunt, too. Even though she was with Ani for a short time she had a big impact on her life and the person she became.
-Deenie Bug

The definition of royalty

Once in the forest, Selia's treatment of Ani becomes obviously hostile, culminating when she proclaims, "Royalty is not a right, Captain. The willingness of the people to follow a ruler is what gives her power. Here in this place, by this people, I have been chosen". do you agree with Selia's assessment? Is this action similar to those taken by others throughout history who wished to gain power over their own destinies? By the end of the story, how does Ani fit Selia's definition of royalty?

Selia's power is gained by deceit and she was chosen by deceitful and selfish people like herself. As in history, deceit and power gain rule over the common people when they have enough supporters that feel the same way and want the power and rewards such an alliance has. In the end Ani was chosen by the good and honorable people to follow her. Ani also earned her Royalty status...not only by who she was but by how she earned it!
-Bookworm

I think that it is true that people choose who to follow. If you have a ruler, be it a King/Queen or President, I don't think people will follow them for long if they don't believe in them in some way. Although sometimes I think that the people speakers get more of a following then they deserve. Some people are far too willing to listen to what someone has to say of what they will do for them and not see the truth through their lies of what kind of person/ruler they really are. I'm sure that Selia had all those men fooled that they would get something out of following her that they wouldn't have gotten under Ani. Chances are, though, that once she was in power they would have been out of luck.
(Can you tell I've got the upcoming elections on the brain.... I think I was half talking about Selia and part talking about Obama.)
-Annegirl

After reading your comment I thought that the recent campaign and election was a perfect example of the Obama plan/tactic. People talkers can convince people if they promise enough things to people who want those things without having to work for them.
-Bookworm

Selia was a pretty person and had the gift of talking to people. I agree with Bookworm you can see comparisons in the recent election. They know how to talk. Obama has the gift of talking to people and convincing them, telling them what they want to hear. I recently saw a quote but I can't remember who it was though that when you tell the truth you don't have to remember what you said. Selia lies were constantly having to be covered up. Even if there had been a war which I am glad there wasn't, Selia lies would have eventually caught up with her. It was sad that people had already lost their lives and more would have been lost. People who lie eventually forget what they have said and get caught.
-Deenie Bug

Romance

Discuss the romance between Geric and Ani. How would Geric describe her? Why does their relationship bloom and then wilt? Were you surprised to learn of Geric's true identity or did you see it coming?

They become friends first and enjoy being together. Geric brings the lunch so they can meet and enjoy each other's company. They "fall in love" but Geric must leave for he is betrothed to the "Princess" whom he doesn't love. Because he has put forth the facade of being a guard Ani doesn't know why he has left and "betrayed" their friendship. It was then that I began to believe that there might be more then meets the eye.
-Bookworm

I was pretty sure he was the prince right from the beginning. I was so glad that he was. I love the way they met and how they got to know each other as well as the fact that he did the little scheme at the end because he believed her without proof.
-Annegirl

Surprisingly, I did not see that coming with Geric as the prince! I was trying to figure out how she could convince them who she was without having to marry the little boy prince. So I was very happy with the way it turned out. I loved how they met too - and how he saw her as a lady even when she was just the goose g i r l . When he wrote her the letter, I thought maybe he was hearing the story from the Kildenree people about her being the servant, refusing to serve anymore and running away. I love surprises, so it was fun that I didn't figure out that he was the prince until she put her story forth to the king.
-Sanya the Duck

I finally was able to read "The Goose Girl". Loved it! I did have the feeling that he was the prince. I loved how they got to know each other with all the barriers down - neither one knowing what position they really held. Normally, royalty didn't get to meet until the wedding and that would be difficult under that circumstance to really get to know someone.
-Deenie Bug

Intentions

Characters' intentions can be revealed through their words, their actions, and the way they treat others. Were there hints of Selia, Ungolad, Talone, Geric, and Enna's intentions throughout the book?

Yes! Selia-mean and deceitful and cruel; Ungolad-cruel, violent, evil, and a murderer; Talone-faithful, true, kind, strong, and courageous; Geric- fun, handsome, and good although when he "couldn't be Ani's friend anymore" I was saddened but wondered if he might be the Prince. Also, at the lake house I was afraid he was going to leave Ani to the cruel intentions and actions of Selia and Ungolad. Thank goodness he and the King went behind the curtain! Enna- in all her actions she became the true friend Ani needed and wanted, she was very courageous, and was hopeful and encouraging.
-Bookworm

The first time I read it I became pretty sure that Ungolad and Selia were up to something when she started acting differently toward Ani on the journey and when they were all having private jokes and conversations.
-Annegirl

Yes, I wondered about Selia when they were still in Kildenree. She was supposedly Ani's best friend, but Ani saw Ungolad touching her arm once in Kildenree, and she had no idea who he was. Wouldn't your best friend tell you EVERYTHING about a guy she liked? Very secretive. You can see by the end of the book that she probably didn't even care for Ungolad - she was just using him as the "muscle" to get her way.
I always trusted Talone because of the way he cared for Ani when she tried to run away as a child.
Geric showed he was honorable by ending his visits with Ani because of his betrothal - even though he didn't choose or love his bride to be, he did the right thing.
-Sanya the Duck

the Setting

The author, Shannon Hale, based The Goose Girl on a Grimms Brothers' fairy tale.
"I felt it was important to make the setting as close to the original tale 's setting as I could, "she has said. "I wanted it to feel like a place we know, a place that is here somewhere, but in the past, just as tales are about us but long ago. To do that, I based Bayern loosely on the Germany of old, the birthplace of the Brothers Grimm. This is not a true historical setting, but resources such as the writing of the Romanian historian Tacitus helped me build a foundation for what I hoped would be a believable and familiar world."
What details of the setting are your favorites? Why? Does it seem familiar or true to you? Why or why not? Do you think it is important for an author of fantasy to pay close attention to a setting's detail?

I really liked the setting. I think it is fun when books have a map at the beginning like Goose Girl did so that you get a feel for the land.
My favorite thing about the setting is probably how well she described the differences between the royal and non royal homes/areas. It was very interesting.
-Annegirl

I loved the setting as well. It made me wish I lived somewhere with lots and lots of open land, and not with 100 homes per street! My favorite scene to picture is the pasture where they take the geese, with a stream nearby and the woods surrounding them. And I can totally picture the arch (where they hung poor Falada's head... that was so sad, I kept waiting to see what the catch was and how he was going to come back!)
-Sanya the Duck

Other books

Do you plan on reading the follow up books to The Goose Girl? (Enna Burning and River Secrets) Do you plan on reading or have you read any other Shannon Hale books?

I haven't read any other Shannon Hale books but I think sometime I would like to read Enna Burning. I would like to learn more about her. I don't know what River Secrets is about. You have told me, annegirl, but I forgot!!
-Bookworm

River Secrets is the third one. I told you it was about Finn but I didn't mean that. I meant Razo. The second book focuses on Enna but all the characters are still involved. In River Secrets it is the same. Everyone is there but Razo plays the main role. I thought they were both really good but I liked the goose Girl the best.
My favorite other Shannon Hale books are The Book of A Thousand Days and Princess Academy.
-Annegirl

Yes, I would love to read the follow up books. I have read Austenland which is wonderful! Totally loved that book which she dedicates humorously to Colin Firth. I hope they make that into a movie. I recently found a list with her books and I saved it so I could read more. One of my friends actually recommended Goose Girl to me last year but I didn't have a chance to read it so I am glad it was on our list.
-Deenie Bug

I will definitely read her other books. Did she write Austenland as well? I read about that book somewhere, but I couldn't remember who wrote it.
-Sanya the Duck

Assumptions

Discuss how appearance and prejudice help and hinder Ani in her quest for justice and her title. For example, what does Gilsa know about Ani by her appearance alone? What does Geric assume? Do the assumptions based on appearances turn out to be correct or incorrect? Why do you think people make assumptions based on appearance alone?

Appearances can cause opinions whether correct or not. Gilsa believes that she is not from Bayern because of her soft hands, accent, and blond hair...that she is nobility. But here is Ani ragged and dirty. Geric assumes she is a goose girl because she hides her hair, changes her accent, and is working with geese and is very humble. Gilsa was correct and Geric was not. How a person's appearance is...dirty or clean, nice clothes or not, the way they speak, and how soft or rough they are make impressions on people.
-Bookworm

Also though, when Geric first saw her he mistook her for a lady. Meaning, back then, not necessarily someone of royalty I don't think , but not a goose girl or worker. I think he felt that because of the way she commanded him. He saw beyond her appearance for a moment.
Also, she did not know he was the prince because he wasn't dressed as one when they met.
I think that is hard not to make assumptions based on appearance. When you first see someone you don't know them yet so that is all you have to go on. The important thing, I think is to be open to changing your assumption as you get to know someone and to not let it hinder trying to get to know them if you assume bad things.
-Annegirl

This reminds me of a story about my grandpa, who was a patriarch. Once a guy came to get his house to receive his patriarchal blessing, and he showed up with long hair and a full beard. Not really the clean cut appearance we come to expect. Anyway, in talking to him before giving him his blessing, he found out that the guy getting the blessing was going to play the part of Christ in the upcoming Easter pageant. Makes you think twice before judging by appearance! (Even though we all do it.)
-Sanya the Duck

Cast

All of the books we have read so far have been made into movies or tv shows with the exceptions of Breaking Dawn and The Goose Girl. If you were to produce a movie of The Goose Girl, whom would you cast in each role? Why would you pick these particular characters?

I don't know...I would have to think about that for awhile! I don't know actors as well as annegirl does.
-Bookworm

The only people I can think of are too old to play the parts! Maybe Gwyneth Paltrow for Ani - because she's blond and kind of quiet and I could see her being a little backward initially with people. And maybe Hugh Jackman (too old, I know!) for Geric - because he seems like he could be a prince that could pull off the every day kinda guy persona. And also cuz the guy is in incredible shape. For all the riding, fighting, and goose chasing he'd have to do. ;)
-Sanya the Duck



Those are good ones Sanya! I had a few people run through my head....
These are some of them...

Milo as Geric:

Anna as Ani (she was in Charlie and the chocolate factory, bridge to terabithia, etc):

Hayden as Selia:

And Emma as Enna:

Weird how the one for Ani is Anna and Enna is Emma. Hmmmm.......
-Annegirl

Who should do the saving?

In traditional fairy tales, the main character is often rescued by another person. In this adaptation, Ani is able to save herself by learning to harness her own gifts and by overcoming inadequacies with people. Do you think one type of story is more valuable than the other? Which story would you rather read?

Both are valuable because in life sometimes we are rescued by the "knight in shining armour" and other times it is up to us to make a difference in our lives and others lives. Both types of stories are fun and beneficial.
-Bookworm

I like to read both types of stories, but I feel that books where you have to save yourself are more true to life. I guess there are times when another person can come to your rescue in a big way, and lots of times when others make a difference in your life. But it's important to know that you have the capability to bring about changes in your own life, more so than anyone else. We've all heard the saying that you can't change other people - they can only change themselves. So I think that's an important lesson to take to heart. Just as Ani didn't wait for someone to come along and pull her out of her crisis.
-Sanya the Duck

Approvals

What do you think Ani's mother, brothers, and sisters would say if they learned how she saved their kingdom from annihilation? Do you think they would have any regrets? What would her aunt say? Whose approval do you think would be the most important to her? Why?

I would think they would be totally amazed and very grateful that they were saved by someone they thought was weak. They should have regrets, particularly the Queen and brother who got the crown, because of what they did to Ani and the danger they put her in. Her Aunt would be appalled at the Queen! She would want the approval of Geric, Talone, her true friends, and the good people of her new "country".
-Bookworm

I agree with bookworm, I think her family back in Kildenree would be completely dumbfounded to hear what she had done. You would hope that the Queen would feel ashamed for misjudging her daughter so horribly, and she should also feel shame for not helping her daughter in any way to develop her character, essentially keeping her weak. Even after her mother was so horrible to her, I still think Ani would want her approval. She already had her aunt's approval. But I think her whole journey of growing up was to learn to approve of herself and be happy with who she was. She was becoming a person she would be happy to be.
-Sanya the Duck

Handkerchief

At first Ani believes the handkerchief her mother gives her is protecting her, but after the tragic events in the forest, she realizes "the idea was completely ridiculous, a bed-tale, a lie". Why is this an important moment for Ani? How does it serve her for the rest of the novel? What ideas or objects do you cling to in hard times? Why do you think the queen gave it to her?

She found that her protection and strength came from within not from some article she thought represented her mother's love and protection. She had to rely on herself and the goodness of others she came to trust. In hard times I cling to faith and love and hope. The Queen, I think, gave the handkerchief to Ani as a show of love for her daughter to the people watching so that they would think she was a loving mother and having a hard time sending her daughter away.
-Bookworm

Losing the handkerchief was a big turning point in the book, where she realized she has relied almost entirely on others and she couldn't do it anymore. For the first time, she was really living her own life, and not just doing or becoming what someone else wanted her to do. Because she had only herself to rely on during such a difficult time, she really started turning her weaknesses into strengths.
-Sanya the Duck

The Fantasy

Do you like the fantasy elements of being able to control wind and talk to animals?

I loved it! I felt from the very beginning that I was reading a fairy tale and it made me feel like a kid again!
-Bookworm

I loved it as well. I really like fantastical books that make a fantasy world seem real. You can then go outside and listen to the wind or the animals and strain to try and hear them... good scope for the imagination.
-Annegirl

The Aunt

Ani's aunt is very different from Ani's mother. How do you think these differences play a role in Ani's development?

Because she was so in tune with nature and things around her she taught Ani to listen to other "voices" in the animals and wind, etc. That is how Ani was able to make such a friend with her horse Falada. I also feel the Aunt taught Ani to be true...not to put forth a false front. She also taught her to love. Ani felt really love by her Aunt and her father, the King.
-Bookworm

I agree. It would have probably been a lot harder for Ani to love the people of Bayern and to become who she was if she had never felt real love and affection and while she got that from her father - it couldn't have been very often.
I believe her aunt proved to her that someone loved her for her and without conditions. She also taught her about herself in a way. The lessons she learned from her aunt stuck with her when the ones from her mother fell away because they were lessons she needed and lessons that were taught from love.
-Annegirl

The queen

Discuss Ani's relationship with her mother. Do you think the queen truly loves Ani? Do you believe that her actions were a betrayal? A selfish act? A political move? To protect Ani? How would you feel if your mother denied you something you felt entitled to?

I don't know if she really loved Ani. That was hard to get a handle on. When she sent Ani away and gave her the handkerchief Ani had hopes of a mother's protection and love in that token but then lost hope when she found it was a false protection. I think her actions, if not a betrayal, felt like one. Perhaps she felt Ani needed to go away to "grow into a Princess" and trusted her escorts...which proved to be wrong. It was a selfish and political act to betroth her daughter to a Prince just to protect her country. She never felt like her mother loved her and the Queen's move to strip Ani of her place and give it to her brother would seem to verify that feeling. I would be very hurt!
-Bookworm

I think she probably loved her ( I hope) but I think she was probably a lot like Selia. They were both blessed with people talking. I think it would be hard for anyone like that to really love someone because people always do what they want them to and they can pretty much be a puppeteer to those around them. This probably doesn't make for a very close and personal relationship with someone as well as with her ideas of separation, elevation, and delegation she probably kept to herself and didn't mix much with her children, husband, etc.
I am sure that her feelings toward her sister affected her feelings toward Ani as well. It's kind of like in Harry Potter when his aunt hated and feared her sister and so those feelings kind of transfer to Harry because he has the same powers/destiny. She obviously feared and loathed her sisters ability to talk to animals and did not want Ani to have that in her life. I am sure she was not proud of her. With a mother like her I am sure that it is hard to love someone that you don't have pride in. I felt like the handkerchief was a sincere moment but , just like Ani, I wondered if it really was or if it was a show for the people of the motherly affection they would expect.
I would have been very insulted and hurt if my mother had gone against protocol to trade me for peace to a kingdom I knew nothing about and a prince I had never met. I think that would make you feel like you were not very important to her.
I am sure that her mother chose her to go because it solved the problem of not thinking Ani was up for the job and insured a treaty as well.
-Annegirl

Trials

Ani is stripped of her rightful crown by her mother, and forced into poverty and virtual slave labor by those who are hired to protect and care for her. While these life changes are traumatic and dramatic, in the end they prove to be good for Ani; she becomes a stronger, more insightful person and meets people she might not have otherwise. What does she learn about herself? What did she learn from those who befriended her? How might things have been different between Geric and Ani had she not gone through these trials?
Have you gone through trials in your life that you know have helped you in these ways?

She finds her "voice" and finds that she does have great strength and courage and can stand for right and face her enemies in order to do what is right. She found that she could finally really trust and be loved for who she is. She and Geric came to know and love each other before they knew what each was. This formed a true relationship instead of just being a forced one. Yes, I have gone through experiences that helped me to grow in understanding and strength, even when I was hurting very deeply inside.
-Bookworm

I believe that Ani thought she was weak because of the way she was treated by her mother and by Selia her entire life. Selia would get frustrated at her for not taking what she wanted (foreshadowing?) and her mother wouldn't allow her to be herself as well as , in the end, taking the crown from her which told her that she didn't trust her or believe her capable of ruling kildenree. Even on the journey she felt , at first, that her strength came from the handkerchief with her mothers blood on it rather than from herself. Becoming the Goose Girl, surviving in the forest, making friends because of who she was rather than her title, being good at things, learning her voices, and learning about what people were really like gave her the strength to overcome. I believe that if she had not gone through any of the things in between running away from Ungolad and his men and going before the King she would not have survived. Also she and Geric , I believe, would have fallen in love either way because they were right for each other but it would have taken more time and maybe neither one would have ever known for sure if the other loved them for themselves.
I think we have all been through terrible and trying times and have to remind ourselves during them that we are learning things. I have learned many lessons in my life because of mistakes I've made or things that have happened beyond my control. It is not a fun way to learn but I think sometimes we learn things the best when they are dramatic and we are forced to change and grow.
-Annegirl

Seperation, elevation, delegation

The queen tells Ani that "a crown princess, like a queen, can succeed only by staying apart." Do you agree with the queen's view? What do you think it would be like to live under those expectations? How do you think this affected Ani's ability to make true friends and keep them?

I think Royalty, whether that is a Princess or Queen, etc., can be more effective if they receive respect but are in touch with the people...so I disagree with the Queen. Ani found it hard to live that way because that was not how she was. She wanted friends she could trust and who would like and trust her. Ani was able to make good friends because she became "one of the people". When they found out who she really was they already loved her and respected her even more!
-Bookworm

Exactly. I am sure that in royalty situations you do have to have a little separation in order to be respected and obeyed but the Kingdom of Bayern will profit so much from having a queen that 'knows' them and their needs. If she hadn't been the Goose Girl and become friends with the 'common' people of Bayern she would never have learned these things. Also, when she was leaving her home she had that moment of sadness that she hadn't really gotten to know her brothers and sisters because she had even been separated from them. I find that so sad.
-Annegirl

your favorite part

Which one of the literary elements was your favorite part of the book- the characters, setting, theme, plot, or magical elements?

I was caught up in the characters and in the plot. I could hardly wait till the end to find out what happened. It was so intense that I wasn't sure until the end how it would end!
-Bookworm

The setting

The author, Shannon Hale, based The Goose Girl on a Grimms Brothers' fairy tale.
"I felt it was important to make the setting as close to the original tale 's setting as I could, "she has said. "I wanted it to feel like a place we know, a place that is here somewhere, but in the past, just as tales are about us but long ago. To do that, I based Bayern loosely on the Germany of old, the birthplace of the Brothers Grimm. This is not a true historical setting, but resources such as the writing of the Romanian historian Tacitus helped me build a foundation for what I hoped would be a believable and familiar world."
What details of the setting are your favorites? Why? Does it seem familiar or true to you? Why or why not? Do you think it is important for an author of fantasy to pay close attention to a setting's detail?

By the pond with the swans, in Bayern in the field with the geese, and the description of the wind. Yes, the author's descriptions color a picture in one's mind and then let our mind also paint a picture of what the author is trying to convey.
-Bookworm

Hiding under a bushel

Although Ani has the gift of animal speaking (with birds and Falada), she is forced to hide it from others. How would her life have been different had this been a valued gift in her own kingdom? Have you ever known someone who has hidden his or her talents? Do you feel comfortable exhibiting yours at all times?

She would not have been looked at as weird. I f she had been encouraged to develop her talent and if her Aunt had been respected instead of ridiculed then Ani might not have felt like such an outcast. I think many are not comfortable with displaying what they feel are their talents. We may wonder if others really consider them talents and worry that we might get teased or embarrassed or wonder if others feel we are bragging.
-Bookworm

Friends

On cold evenings Ani joins the other animal workers and roasts nuts by the fire and learns to play games. For the first time in her life, Ani must learn to build friendships with people who are not paid to be her companions. What skills does she develop? How does she turn strangers, especially Enna, into such dear friends that they are willing to endanger their lives for her?

She is kind to others and they love to listen to her stories at night. She becomes a friend to them and does not want to endanger them in any way.
-Bookworm

Bayern vs. Kildenree

Compare the Kildenreans to the Bayern? How are they similar? How are they different?

The Kildenreans were a more peaceful people, with fair skin and hair, and had a smaller population so were afraid of the advantage the Bayerns had over them. The Bayerns were more of the fighter mentality, were dark-haired and had a different accent. I think they both desired peace (with the exceptions of some people on each side) and were hopeful that the marriage of the Princess and Prince would accomplish that.
-Bookworm

September's Book: Breaking Dawn by Stephenie Meyer