Who do you relate to?

Which character do you see yourself in the most?
Elinor Dashwood, Marianne Dashwood, Mrs. Jennings, Charlotte Palmer, Lucy Steele, or Lady Middleton? Discuss your reasons.

I am totally a Marianne Dashwood. I am passionate about everything I am interested in and blase about everything else. When I get an idea in my head I get tunnel vision and I go over the top with it... I think it is called an addictive personality. Good thing I never tried heroin eh? But I like to say I have OCPD- obsessive compulsive planning disorder because it is usually the planning of events and trips and things like this book club that get me obsessed. But yes, I see myself in Marianne more than any other character although there are times when I can be much more serious like Elinor. I am NOTHING like Mrs. Jennings, Charlotte, or Lucy since I'm really not that social. But I do have a little of Lady Middleton in me as I am totally 100% in love with my little Abi and she is my world. I would have been a fan of Lucy too probably if she had played with Abi and told me how wonderful she is.
-Annegirl

I think when you are young and fall in love, you're bound to act pretty stupid. At least I did! When I read about Marianne with Willoughby, it reminded me of how dumb I was at that time in my life. So I guess I relate to Marianne the most as well. But once she lived through it, saw it was a mistake, that it would've been a disaster - then she kind of grew up about it. So now that I've been through it, I can see when someone else is acting ridiculous, and try to steer them the way Elinor tried with Marianne. It's completely pointless though. It's a rite of passage that we all have to get through, some with less stupidity than others! Marianne has some very charming aspects of her personality, like a love and passion for beautiful things, enthusiasm, and deep commitment and loyalty to her loved ones. It's not so bad to relate to her!
-Sanya the Duck

I guess I am most like Elinor...as I am fairly serious about things and try to put on a strong face when things are hard. Also, I try to look out for others. But I do have excitement for life and things I am passionate about like Marianne. I am passionate about my children and grandchildren like Lady Middleton and sometimes a bit silly like Charlotte. But I am definitely not a Lucy who cares only about herself and what she can get out of others to benefit herself
-Bookworm

I'm a complete Elinor. Not to be rude, but Marianne kinda drove me nuts. She was so naive and flirtatious. Don't get me wrong, i can be a romantic, but i guess I'm just more like Elinor in the way that she's more reasonable and doesn't just fall head over heals at the first sight of a handsome dude on a horse.
-Keddy-Weddy

You really are an Elinor! She was a romantic, but she played it cool in front of everyone, instead of laying all the cards out on the table. You never did seem boy crazy to me. I thought you'd be an old maid! Ha ha! Just kidding Ked. You're so sweet and amazingly talented that I knew when you were discovered you'd be off the market. Yay for Mark!
-Keddy-Weddy

Marianne is very passionate and does care very deeply for people she loves. She does speak her mind more often where Elinor tends to keep things inside which can have a downside to that, too. I think I am more like Marianne but I also have a little of Elinor in me, too. Along with Charlotte, who can be silly at times.
-Deenie Bug

Yeah, I was more Marianne as a teenager and I know that if I could go back to when I was 16 and just watch me I would think I was so annoying. I was such a social butterfly and such a flirt... and sooooo hyper. But now I am mostly Marianne when it comes to my passion for things and the fact that she doesn't always want to go to the social functions- as well as her love of literature. But I do have a lot more of that serious Elinor side than I used to.
-Annegirl

I think that I am very much like Marianne. I also very passionate and I care deeply for those that I love. Think that I have a little of Mrs. Jennings in my when it comes to talking. I love a good conversation, but in the end I am very much like Marianne.
Hare_Bear

Got to give Cheryl a compliment and high five for getting this book club started! This has been so much fun to read hers and every one's comments on the book. I am looking forward to seeing the comments on "Alice in Wonderland". Good reading everyone!!
-Bookworm

Mrs. Jennings

A turn of the century review described Mrs. Jennings as a character it is "equally delightful to have met on paper and not have met in the flesh". Why is it delightful to spend time reading about a character who would be tedious in person? Might a character be every bit as tedious on paper as in person? Can you think of examples in this or other books?

Ohhhh yeah.. it is funny how I think Mrs. Jennings is funny on paper (and even in film) but she would drive me nuts in person with her constant teasing, etc. I was thinking of someone that I would hate in person that I also hated on paper and the first person that came to mind was Prof. Umbridge in Harry Potter and the order of the phoenix. She was one of the first characters I ever read that had me so emotionally charged and angry. So, although the story wouldn't be complete without her she is just as horrible in the book!
-Annegirl

i totally agree with you about prof. umbridge. she really is the only person i have truly hated in any book.
-Keddy-Weddy

Yeah, I was hoping for a violent end for Professor Umbridge every time I read about her! But now that I've read The Host, the Seeker is right up on the list too! Sharon & her mom really bugged me too, but since she didn't write in depth about them, I didn't have the loathing for them that I did for the Seeker.
-Sanya the Duck

She is a nosy, teasing, gossiping woman who would, I feel, be very bothersome. But I think between the lines one finds caring and a willingness to try to do kindness to those she likes and loves. She likes to be in the center of things. Even though she was so annoying I think she was well liked in the end.
-Bookworm

I think you are right. She did have a good heart and wanted everyone to be happy.
-Annegirl

Lessons

What lesson, if any, did you learn from reading this?

Things aren't always as they appear to be (Willoughby). That family is the most important (Mrs. Dashwood and her daughters) and that with each others help you can get through anything. That everyone has pain or something they have to deal with and it is how you handle it and what you learn that molds your character. That honor, integrity, and kindness (the opposite of Fanny, John, Willoughby, Lucy) are more important than wealth. That money can be very nice if you can be a good and honorable person in receipt of and in spite of it! That good friends are a blessing (Colonel Brandon, Sir John, and sometimes Mrs. Jennings and Charlotte). That good things come if you try to do what is right and are patient. And that reading good books is awesome!
-Bookworm

That was a perfect summary of the lessons learned, Bookworm! You should write the back covers of books, that was so succinct!
-Sanya the Duck

Thank you for the compliment Sanya the duck!!
-Bookworm

You really did an amazing summary of it Bookworm! I truly believe in all you said especially your second to last sentence. That good things come if you try to do what is right and are patient. Some times things don't work out as fast and perfect as we would like them to, but we need to keep trying to live and hope that everything will work out the way that it should. :0)
-hare-bear

Hey, Hare Bear...Thank you for what you said! You and Sanya the Duck made my day! I have done some writing...children's books (one done and another one on the brain) that I hope to have the courage to send to a publisher soooon! Nothing may happen but compliments on what one has written, even in summary, does give one courage!
-Bookworm

Social Lifestyle

One thing I noticed was how often the Dashwoods and their neighbors were together. It seemed like everyone (in both the country and the city) was always together for meals, parties, etc. Would you like to live in an environment that was that social? Why or why not?

I would hate it. I like my friends and all but I HAVE to have alone time or I will go insane. I do like having friends (and family when we are near them) around for movies and hanging out but it is just not in my nature to want to be around people or talking to people all the time. And I like being in my pajamas too much too. Haha.
-Annegirl

I love going to dinners and parties and Events. In my family I was called the Social Butterfly. My dearest hubby does not like the social stuff, so I have had to bring it down. But that is one positive thing about coming back to church; almost all my social stuff is church related!
-Stampin_Maniac

I did not know that about you. Now it makes sense because you do always seem to make friends easily whenever you move anywhere..... duh. So, it's Brent is it. I guess we have that in common. Doug is way more social than I am!
Although, in high schoool I was in the middle of it all- always wanted to be hanging out with my friends... but that's changed in the last twelve years for some reason..
-Annegirl

In the military after my husband made Officer we had to be part of the social scene and attend all the functions and balls and Wives Club activities. I really enjoyed that and being a part of something so big...but deep down I am a quiet girl who enjoys serenity and time away from "the things of man" (Joe vs. the Volcano"). I love being around my family and my children and their families and doing activities with them! I like being around runners at races and with the sisters in my ward at Church (I have got to know so many so much better because of my calling as R.S. President) ...but little ole' me does so much enjoy my "all by myself" quiet time to ponder, regroup, read, create, and plan.
-Bookworm

I've been known as an anti-social. So i always thought it was so funny when Sir John would be constantly inviting the Dashwoods to things and they would always try to come up with some excuse not to go. I feel like I've done that a lot and it was so funny to me for some reason. But at the same time, i really like doing some things. i love getting dressed up and going to some fancy dinner or whatever. So i think I'm about half way in between.
-Keddy Weddy

I have made excuses sometimes too. Every once in a while someone would want to do something and even though I know it would probably be fun and good to go, I just feel like "I want to be home. I want to read. " or something like that. I found that really funny in the book too.
-Annegirl

I think during that time the social activities were such a focus because people in the country were so far apart and they couldn't just "talk over the back fence" or while the kids were playing. Nowadays, we have so many distractions, and events get so crowded and noisy. I love to stay home in my pajamas, too. In fact, on most Saturdays, when I don't have to work I love to just shower and get back in my jamies and read, scrapbook, tole paint or cross-stitch. My week is so busy that I just want to stay home on Saturdays or evenings. Movies at a theatre aren't so much fun anymore as there are so many people that talk or use their cellphones during a movie - so annoying! It is fun once in a while to get dressed up and go out, too.
However, it is nice to have peace and quiet all to myself :)
***It's fun to "chat" with you all! It's great!***
-Deenie Bug

The proposals

Did anyone else find the proposals and marriages of Elinor and Marianne to be anti-climatic?

I did. (I mean, obviously, since I started this thread) I think this is also because of seeing the movie first. I just love Edward's proposal in the movie and that it seems that you can see Marianne falling for Col. Brandon. In the book I felt bad that you didn't get to read the actual proposal and that it almost seemed like Marianne just married him because it was wise. But I still loved it.
-Annegirl

Yes, they were almost like an afterthought. I imagine them to be much more dramatic in real life.
-G-Mama

Yes. The marriage proposals in the movie were better, especially Elinors. I would have liked more detail and what happened at the weddings. I am a romantic! To give so much detail in other things and then not so much at the end left one wanting more.
-Bookworm

I felt like she kinda dragged other things out over whole chapters (even though i loved it) and then the most exciting part she just breezes over it. It seems like you are just waiting throughout the entire book for proposals and then it is just stated matter of factly... where's the drama??
-Keddy-Weddy

S&S Popularity

This book has been a steady best seller for some 200 years. What do you think is the source of its continued popularity?

I think that the romance of the book along with the sensibility of the book keep it a best seller. Romance books are always top sellers. I am glad it is not a romance with the naughty stuff in it. It doesn't hurt that great movies have been made about the book.
-Stampin_Maniac

I think it is because the characters are so real, relatable, and well-developed. The situations are interesting but not too far-fetched. It is romantic without being unbelievable and so appeals to a lot of different types of people.
-G-Mama

I agree with you both. I think it is the romance and the characters. I think the problem with a lot of romance novels is that they are focused on the romance and there isn't as much character development.. and some books have the opposite problem. I think she is balanced on both. (As are most of my favorite romance authors.. it's not usually my favorite genre) I love books with people that I care about. If I don't care about the characters I won't read it. I read A LOT and this year I gave myself the gift of not having to finish a book. I know that sounds funny but I have always felt like I need to finish every book I start. I decided that if I don't love the book then there is no reason to waste my time and I have actually had about three books in the last few months that have been this way. I want to read about people that I will love. She gives me that.
-Annegirl

I have also not finished quite a few books. If it is boring I will just skip to the last two chapters to find out what happened
-Stampin_Maniac

It's nice to know that there are others who feel it is okay to not finish a book. I have started realizing, too, it's okay not finish a book. I'll apologize to all the Twilight fans now, but I couldn't finish it. The series, I think, you either really like it or really don't, I'm in the latter group. But, to each their own. I really enjoy clean romances but really like it when there is either history items or mystery included. Jane Austen is fun to read.
-Deenie Bug

Oops. I guess you're going to be skipping the Twilight and Breaking Dawn months then eh? HaHa.
-Annegirl

That's okay they are on the list. Maybe I just have to try and reread them. :) I am going to try and read Breaking Dawn. I like to try and give books the benefit of the doubt. :) I am going to see the movie (Twilight) when it comes out. It will be interesting to see what they do with it. I also think it is interesting, speaking of movies, that, in reading Sense and Sensibility, again, because I sometimes forget things (I guess that comes with having five children - one loses masses amounts of brain cells) after I have read them, but it is interesting what the screenplay writers have added or deleted from the books when they make movies. I thought it funny that in the book Sir John is described as "a good looking man about forty". In the Emma Thompson movie he is definitely NOT about forty and his wife had passed away. And in the more recent version of Masterpiece Theatre he wasn't portrayed as about forty but did have a wife and children as portrayed in the book. I really liked both versions of the movies, though. I find it interesting how different people like to interpret the book. Books I think, though, are the best.
-Deenie Bug

I think "Sense and Sensibility" and her other books, even though written in a different time, still deal with the basics that all generations go through. We can identify with the people and situations and feelings because we go through similar experiences. I also love the fact that when you read her books you know that they will be wholesome even though there are dastardly dudes doing dastardly things. Honorable and good things are the things that are represented so well in her books. And the workings of good romance and right come out for good in the end.
-Bookworm

"Dastardly dudes doing dastardly things" HAha... that's funny.
-Annegirl

Lucy

Elinor considers Lucy's marriage to Robert Ferrars as "extraordinary and unaccountable", "completely a puzzle". Is it a complete puzzle to you as well?

Lucy was smart, manipulative, and conniving. I think she could see that Edward was dragging his feet, and he wasn't in a position financially that they could get married in the too near future, and once they did, they'd have next to nothing. Robert was in a better position, having been promoted to the oldest son, and I think she knew if she could just get in the family, she could brown-nose crusty old Mrs. Ferrars until her iron-clad fist (the one with all the money in it) could be pried open. Also, her victory over Elinor couldn't really be complete if A) the only money she and Edward had coming in was because of Elinor and B) if she married Edward and he still loved Elinor and they were both miserable. So she took the closest and most immediate alternative. UGH! I think she's the biggest jerk in the whole book!
-Sanya the Duck

I agree. G-Mama and I just watched the movie a few nights ago. (I'll post pics later) and at first we thought they had made her character in the movie unaware of Elinor's feelings for Edward. This was what I had thought the last times I had seen it. But after reading the book we watched her with more scrutiny and you could see it- that evil little twist in her personality that was pushing things on Elinor that would hurt her. What a meanie.
-Annegirl

That's what made her the villain - pretending to be sincere when she was actually Ms. Wicked Witch. I agree with you too - they did soften her in the movie, if you didn't know from the book how she really was.
-Sanya the Duck

Wow, Sanya, the duck, got it right on! That is how I felt. Lucy was conniving and used people to get what she wanted. Once Edward no longer had favor with his Mom and would lose his part of the Estate he just wasn't attractive anymore. She just had to work on Robert awhile when he was coming to visit her to talk her out of marrying Edward...and then work on "the Mother".
-Bookworm

The Letter

Were you surprised to learn that Willoughby's wife Sophia wrote the letter to Marianne? And why did people end letters with etc.?

I was surprised to find out that Sophia wrote the letter. I don't know why she didn't just tell him to do it and approve... I guess she wanted to make sure it left no question in Marianne's mind that he was taken. And why do they end letters with etc?
-Annegirl

I was surprised too. Probably because I saw the movie before I read the book, and it wasn't that way in the movie!
-Sanya the Duck

Yes, I was surprised! I guess that was her way of making sure Willoughby "wrote" the letter, that it got sent, and that Marianne knew she knew! Perhaps the "etc." meant additional good wishes or bad wishes...whatever was intended with the closing of the letter for emphasis!
-Bookworm

Doing Wrong

At one point in the book Marianne tells Elinor that if she were doing anything wrong, she would know it. Do people usually know when they are doing something wrong? Do you think Austen thinks so? Do you think Marianne did anything wrong?

I think that most people know when they are doing wrong most of the time. There are those who have never been taught right or wrong although I think that most of us do have an inner compass about these things even if we have never been taught. But, you also have to take into account that one person's "wrong" may not be the same to someone else. To Marianne, for example, running around with Willoughby willy nilly wasn't wrong but to Elinor it was. I think that Marianne could look back on it and acknowledge that it wasn't appropriate in that time and place but not really "wrong".
-Annegirl

I think most of us know when we are doing wrong or inappropriate things. Marianne was not doing "wrong" but the wild, carefree actions with Willoughby were not considered appropriate actions for a young woman of those days to run wildly with a young man. The definite wrong actions were done by Willoughby, Fanny, and the Ferrars.
-Bookworm

Age difference

Were you surprised by their ages? Specifically that Marianne was only 16 while Colonel Brandon was 35 and that their mother was only 40 (only 5 years older than Brandon!)

This did surprise me. I knew that Col. Brandon was much older than Marianne but for some reason i didn't think it was almost twenty years!! And I had no idea that her mom was sooo young. Crazy! So as I was reading and found out that Col. Brandon was only a few years younger than Mrs. Dashwood and wanting to date her middle child I found myself thinking "Creepy." I then had to remind myself that I like him and then pretend he was 25 or something.
-Annegirl

We need to remember that this was written in 1811. Times were much different than now. We now live a lot longer than they did. Marianne's station in life was such that she couldn't be choosy. Don't forget she fell down a hill and the first person to pick her up that could recite poems was her first choice. If I had fallen down a hill and the first guy that picked me up, I would have been much choosier than Marianne. I probably would have fallen down a few more times to see what my options were.

I think that after seeing the movie our concepts about what their ages should be is a little skewed. In the book they describe Edward as not being handsome. I think Hugh Grant is handsome. So, it just depends on how you choose to view it in your head.

-Stampin_Maniac

That seriously made me laugh so hard. You're right though. It didn't matter how she described the characters... I saw the actors/actresses from the movie. (the Hugh Grant/Emma Thompson/Kate Winslet etc one).

-Annegirl

I guess that when one really thinks about it today that would be a little different but like Karen said "times were different". But I found it interesting that in the movie and the book I didn't make the connection of such age difference (except in the movie when Marianne referred to the Colonel's rheumatism) because I wanted Elinor to marry Edward and Marianne to marry the Colonel so much.
-Bookworm

Who would you be friends with?

Who would you rather have as a friend- Marianne or Elinor? Why?

I would probably have to go with Elinor. Since I am more like Marianne I think it is important to have people around to balance you out.
-Annegirl

I would go with Elinor because she is a lot like me.
-Bookworm

The Ending

Do you think Sense and Sensibility has a happy ending?

I think so although I hope that Marianne was really in love with Col. Brandon. I felt good after having read it though so to me that means it was happy.
-Annegirl

I liked the ending.I was so happy that things worked out for Elinor and was happy that Colonel Brandon finally got Marianne!
-Bookworm

Willoughby

Before his duplicity is revealed is John Willoughby an appealing character?Why? how does Austen reveal his charms and hint at his defects? What does Willoughby's opinion of Colonel Brandon- that he dislikes him for "threatening me with rain when I wanted it to be fine"- reveal about him? At the end of the book does he seem a changed man? Would you have let him in if you had been Elinor?

I thought that he was appealing. My problem came in the fact that I had already seen the movie so I couldn't be completely duped by him. But the first time I saw the movie I was. He comes across passionate and fun and well read- all things that would appeal to me. And being that I am much like Marianne I am sure I would have fallen for him as well. But while reading (or seeing the movie) I was startled by his opinion of Col. Brandon although it could be that he was just insecure knowing that he was also in love with Marianne. But it seemed to hint of an unkind side to him that I would not find appealing. He did seem a little changed at the end but not enough to satisfy me into liking him or feeling sorry for him. I probably would have turned him away if I had been Elinor. I wouldn't hate him or be mean, I would have just been like, "She's alive. It's nice of you to be concerned. Good day."
-Annegirl

I have also seen the movie so knew what kind of a man he. But at first you see a good looking man with money and with a happy personality (though I didn't like the way he talked about the Colonel) and all that seemed to have him enjoy the felicities of life! But then the truth comes out as he treats Marianne so poorly in London and then they find out what he truly is and has done. Money more than honor was his code. Just the fact that he had gotten another girl with child and ran from that was horrible. The fact that his Aunt offered him the estate if he would marry that girl but he still wouldn't shows what a blackard he was. I would have listened to his story and excuses to try to find out what he had done and why but than would have asked him to leave and never see them again. It took a lot of guts for him to even come after all he had done to them and others.
-Bookworm

Money

"Wealth has much to do with happiness" Elinor states at one point. "Elinor, for shame!"says Marianne. "Money can only give happiness where there is nothing else to give it." What is the relationship between love and money in Sense and Sensibility? Is it different for different characters? Has the relationship between love and money changed in today's world?

I think that most people back then saw them as one and the same because they had no other options but to marry into money. I think that today there are still a lot of people that see money as everything and would still marry someone for that more than for love but I don't think its the majority. I could be wrong.
I think its natural for people to want to make more money and be able to have everything they desire but the problem really does come when people think that they would be happy "if only" they had more money. Less stressed- yes probably, More active- maybe, Better dressed- sure, more entertained- maybe, More educated- sometimes (but hey, look at the Paris and Britney's of the world to know money doesn't always buy that!) but more happy- not if you can't be happy with what you have, in my opinion. I guess I agree with Marianne. If you've got a crappy outlook on life then 20, 000 dollars more a year would probably just give you a crappy outlook on a nicer couch.
That being said, I think it is always admirable to be willing and desirous of wanting to work hard and look for opportunities to keep yourself and your family financially secure and to reach goals or "have" more. I know that I am very blessed to be married to a man who is willing to work his hiney off and do things he doesn't always want to do so that we can try to better our situation in that way and so that I can be home with our girl. Money is not a bad thing. It is a great thing. It is the attitude that can either make it bad or good.
-Annegirl

Money meant security and social position...and lack of it meant being looked down upon as socially inferior. Today we can still see it (ie:country clubs, military (ie: Officer and Enlisted as I know), political and social arenas,etc. but it is not the same. At least one can make a life for themselves in whatever station they are in. Back in those days in England women were totally dependent on family position, wealth, and marriage. Because Mrs. Dashwood was a second wife and had only daughters, the estate went to the first son. Mr. Dashwood pleaded with John before he died to take care of his wife and daughters because the law prevented him from leaving them anything. But John, not a true man and keeper of his word, was beguiled by his Fanny to not give anything to the family. She was a very selfish and cruel woman who did not want anything to go to others...and in turn would look down on them as inferior. How hard for Mrs. Dashwood and her daughters to give up their home means of support. Marianne wanted wealth and good looks and thought she had found it in Willoughby. Later she found that that doesn't always bring happiness. Elinor wanted most to have a secure life with a good man that she loved and who loved her!
-Bookworm

Feelings

When you finished reading and closed the book how did you feel?

I felt good. I felt disappointed that it was over. I felt like I wanted to immediately read another Austen novel!! It took me a little while to get out of my "Austen ears" as Emily (G-Mama) called them the other day. (We were talking about how it took me a couple of chapters to get into it and she said "to get on your Austen ears" and I thought that was a perfect way to describe getting used to the language.) I really loved this book.
-Annegirl

I enjoy Jane Austen's books so much...Pride and Prejudice being my favorite. But I loved this book (and the movie), too, and it was hard to see it come to an end. However, in these books you really have to concentrate on the wording and the way the sentences are written as one sentence can go on and on and on! But you do get a lot of description of feelings and events and people by focusing on what is written. And it is fun, too!
-Bookworm